bill ackman is here I don't know if Bill Villa I know watch that video I don't know if you just got a chance to see it just now we of course are going to get to Herbalife in just a moment that was the John Oliver look I love John Oliver he's the greatest man ever as long as you're not on the other end of a John Oliver um true I wanted to talk politics before we even get into anything and we were talking to Lloyd just before about what some people are calling the Trump rally I'm curious you woke up on Wednesday morning as an investor and you thought what I I woke up extremely bullish on Trump believe it or not and my thinking is as follows this is the greatest United States is the greatest business in the world and it's been under managed for a very long period of time we now have a businessman in the president's you know as a president and he has power because Republicans control Congress publicans control the Senate he's going to launch a major infrastructure program he's gonna take corporate taxes down to a sensible level level and get rid of loopholes he's going to get a lot done and nothing has gotten done in you know very long period of time and if you were an activist investor you want someone to come in take over and get things that need to get done done and I think that's extremely bullish for growth in the United States and he's also gonna you know I think he's if you look at his financial advisers they're not your typical presidential financial advisers they're business people and the United States is the biggest business in the world deserves to be run by businessperson and I think he will attract the best and brightest to help him grow the country so I think it's very bullish from an investor point of view I think he's going to reduce regulation it's gonna get rid of the split ik Washington DC I think that's going to increase the bullishness of CEOs and I think that's why the stock market's going on I'm almost on the floor hearing you say I really mean it only because I think the last time I talked to you you were supporting Hillary Clinton no it's not true not true I've been supported Bloomberg I worked really hard to get Bloomberg elected first I've tried to run I get him to run and for the same reasons right I thought I thought bloomer would be a better candidate for you know he's a better closer match for me on social issues and Supreme Court issues and some other things but you know I've said for years that if we could actually have a businessperson around the country that would be a wonderful thing for America so I think first of all I had one of the great meetings of all time with Donald Trump about 20-something years ago I'll never forget that one but I'd take the rest of this panel to tell you about that meeting but was tell us about that meeting um it was just a great meeting um no bad idea but he cannot hint so I spent an hour and a half at Donald Trump twenty-something years ago about Rockefeller Center because we were big shareholder come to call Rockefeller Center properties and he had an idea and we wanted to work on it together and ultimately it didn't work out but I got to I met him then and then I saw him in a wedding maybe a number of years ago but I know Ivanka a lot better than I know Donald Trump and I've been a big fan of hers and I think she my most bullish argument can make for Donald Trump is if he produced you know it's hard to produce children of that kind of quality and I think that speaks obviously to him so you know I woke up bullish about America and you can be and say what you want about you know some personal qualities issues etc but I believe in the American people are talking about what the transformation of you or your thinking on this because I what I don't remember you thinking this way before I woke up in the morning no I know on Wednesday morning you woke up in the morning but I what my concern about Donald Trump was volatility my concern was who knows what he's gonna do right and then I woke up and I said you know what this guy just became president United States this is going to be his legacy does he want to screw it up no he wants to be the greatest president the country's ever had and I remember when I was a kid you know Ronald Reagan getting elected and people said the guy was a clown he was an actor he didn't know anything and we looked back people think of Ronald Reagan is one of the greatest presidents we've had now this is a guy who knows how to build things get them done on time and on budget and by the way that skill is very useful when you're going to spend a trillion dollars on fixing the infrastructure of the country and when you're going to but the American people are very wise and the American people voted not only to put Donald Trump in the presidential seat but to keep control of the Congress and the Senate in the hands of the Republicans which means the president can be effective and we've not had opportunity in a very very long period of time and I think that's very bullish for growth and a lot of things that should have happened haven't happened for many years corporate tax reform is something that's been talked about forever it's probably the single biggest thing we can do to drive growth in the country and to prevent you know companies going to Ireland and you know Luxembourg and wherever I'll tell what did you do on Wednesday morning in the market nothing we already own what we own so nothing I didn't I'm not Carl Icahn Carl give Carl credit he apparently he left the Trump rally at 10:00 to go trade you know currently invested a billion dollars index futures that's not really what we do but I you know I think it's very good for the companies that we own so we were already in somewhere long America and so I have John Oliver to take care of Herbalife and Donald Trump to take care of the rest of the portfolio I'm done okay well we got to talk about a lot we're talk about the names I want to talk names I want to talk arbor life and valiant and Chipotle and Fannie and Freddie but I want to ask you before we do it just about activist investing and the theme here is playing for the long-term and we had a number of CEOs join us on the stage today where we talked about activists and activism and I would mention your name in some instance they all by the way send their best and their love okay Indra Nooyi was here and she said this about activist investing she said don't try to make CEOs look like fools and use the media constructively because shaming CEOs doesn't help if you run a company a real company you wouldn't be saying this I think asset creators get the short end of the stick they don't get enough credit and support asset managers and manipulators get all of the attention what do you make of that I think she's entirely right you know if you look at what we do and again what one of the things you learn from the success of Donald Trump is the you know the media here has to feel pretty embarrassed about the election and how they they call the election learn not to trust the media unfortunate you can't believe what you read in the newspaper so that perhaps perception by Indra is tough for me to sit here like this but look if I were a paid guest I'd have to be more polite I'm here for free um so and who's using whom let me just be really clear okay so I have a lot of respect for engineering but if you look at what we do okay we are not manipulators gatherers we're business builders you know we stepped into Canadian Pacific and you know summer of 2011 it was the worst friend Railroad in North America we recruited the best CEO in the railroad industry the shareholders were very kindly after the board resisted gave us control of the company we controlled the second-largest railroad in Canada we put him in the seat and he built the most profitable road in North America over a four or five year period of time became had the best on-time performance they reduced delivery times they you know this is a meaningful part of infrastructure Canada right look at Suffolk SME at Air Products what he's done he took the least profitable industrial gas company over the last three years and made it the most profitable buy we're still a shareholder you look at what we did at General Growth this was a company the stock was at 34 cents we joined the board we took the company through bankruptcy all the bondholders got their money back power plus a crude saying with all the mortgage holders all the employees kept their jobs we recruited the new management team we put a new board in the stock went from 34 cents the pieces today trade for 44 dollars a share we still own the pieces we still own the Howard Hughes corporation here we took all the development assets out of Howard Hughes you know land all kinds of property that were not were not being built we put in David Weinreb and grant her let's people that no one had ever heard of them okay and they took that company and they built a remarkable publicly traded real estate development company for a company that that was worth zero so we're long-term investors we're business builders we recruit the best management teams in the world we don't all get them right and we recruited Ron Johnson into JCPenney this was not financial engineering this was taking a guy who built the Apple Retail Store or chain the most successful most profit or retail store chain in the world a guy who had worked at Target for 10 years and at Mervyn's and wanted to reinvent the department store and he gave it the college try he didn't work but none of these things are about you know apparently Howard Schultz like you know I really no he still has he was always saying very negative things about JCPenney what do we do we recruited to see what she said here yeah I read that recruited the CEO very talented guy great track record and didn't work no that's not that's okay right but none of these things are leveraged recaps and massive buybacks and you know let's go pay a huge dividend and leave the company dry named Pacific increased their capex spending from 700 million to a billion a half the year after we took control the company so we are business builders and perhaps there's some activists that are not I don't know many that are that act that way okay let me ask you this though you have had a tough year yeah is fair to say yes you had 20 billion dollars under management yes back in March of 2015 s down now to about eleven point four something like that yes um I think is well I don't know if William Cohen's here he wrote an article called is Bill Ackman toast I love articles like that motivates me every day and by the way to give you a sense of the fraudulence of the press and I like Bill is a good guy the opening the opening anecdote in this story is about a match where I play tennis with John McEnroe and in reality and what the article says is I almost hit John McEnroe with an overhead and then he was incredibly polite to me for the rest of the match even though I never even apologized that's what the article says here are the facts I hit John McEnroe with an overhead okay I apologize it's profusely John McEnroe spent the rest of the match trying to hit me with the ball okay which story sounds more accurate knowing John McEnroe okay anyway the rest how we'll do Q&A and maybe get to William in just a minute all right he can he can take this and I like John McEnroe good home but let's just talk about some of the companies that have struggled and try to understand the way you're thinking about them now we've had one problem what is that problem the problem is valiant pharmaceuticals and the mistake we made is for the first time we bought a company that an incredibly successful track record there was already an activist on the board of directors there was a CEO had done an excellent job and we thought we could be a passive investor and we got our head ripped off and in the last seven or eight months we went back to what we do which is tribe you know we valiant at when we joined the board was a classic Persian square investment valiant when we made the investment at 190 dollars a share as a passive investor really is not the kind of thing that we should be doing for what is is there a path back on valiant for you sure so path back you know we're not gonna get $190 a share very quickly but I think ever I've ever too long a period of time there are real businesses here and and when I talk about what the CEO is doing so let's talk about what we've done and we can talk about what the CEO has done so I joined the board in March along with Steve Frieden our vice chairman a brilliant lawyer and the company was on its way to bankruptcy over the first weekend on the board we convinced the rest of the board that Mike had to go Mike I was the guy the board asked a call him to tell him he was fired basically we also had to get a 10k filed and Steve worked with some combination of lawyers and accountants to make sure that that worked we made a deal with the bank's working with the company's treasurer to extend the maturity of or wait get some defaults waived I mean really a mess and then we worked hard with the board to recruit a new CEO guy named Joe Papa who I think is exactly the right kind of person for something like this and then Joe since he's been there has recruited a CFO in this case from a zoetis a company that we have been an investor in a great general counsel he's building out a management team and he's announced a strategy and the strategy is we're going to sell non-core assets you know about eight billion dollars of assets have been identified we're going to use those that money to pay down debt and we're going to fix the operations of the business and probably at some point rename the company when we made some progress but what's what will be left is some really great businesses there's Bausch and Lomb you think about the contact lens business this is one of the great businesses the world my guess is viewer contact lenses you very rarely switch and you know they've got very high margins it's a great business they've got something called branded generics which is like advil and Mexico and people trust these kind of brands there's no very little pharmaceutical risk they have a product called survey your skin looks very nice my guess is you CeraVe on your face thank you great product it's like Neutrogena growing very quickly in valiant and so it's a collection of different businesses and you know they've been disrupted in a very dramatic way morale has obviously been hit by employees losing their net worths the stock price declined but I think Joe is putting in place the right team and we'll have a balance what did you notice I mean some people have called this the Enron of pharmaceuticals as an investor and and you're somebody who historically has tried to find the Enron's and instead of buying going long you have gone short the answer is we got to know Valiant over the course of 2014 in a pretty intimate way which gave us the confidence to invest in the company in 2015 and it turns out that the business changed very dramatically in 2015 and what I mean by that is the events that took down valiant almost all of them took place in 2015 and we were not aware of them at the time they were taking place I'll give you a few examples so one of the things that gave us confidence in investing in valiant was my Pearson's track record for allocating capital and the best evidence of that we had was first hand I spent a year working with Mike on the Allergan transaction and at the very end in October Mike had a decision to make do I raise my bid to get the deal or do I walk and let activist get the deal our view was he should rate his raises bid and if he raised his bid the combination was incredibly strategic we thought it would be a great transaction and we thought the returns for shareholders would be fantastic Mike said bill you know what it's just not a good enough deal for me my standards are higher I'll let activist buy the company I was like wow this is real discipline so when Valiant bought Salix just six months later and spent the biggest deal they had done in their history I believe on the basis of his passing on elegan that this was a spectacular deal because you know why would he pass on a deal I thought was great for this one well it turns out he significantly overpaid for Salix what else did he do in in 2015 he bought a couple of drugs he marked the price up overnight five and 10x interacting congressional scrutiny they did this this Philidor entity which you know didn't exist at the time we did due diligence on the company 2014 grew from 1% of revenues in the fourth quarter of 2014 to percent of the revenues of the company and in that case they made a deal to buy control the entity they consolidated it but they never disclosed it and they gave the management this huge economic incentive to drive prescription sales and I still don't know the facts at this point because they're still under investigation but apparently some compliance and other violations took place as these entrepreneurs were incentivized to deliver results for Valiant those three events plus a minor accounting half a percent of revenue accounting revenue recognition issue from one quarter to the next we're all sort of disclosed in October of last year and the company went dark and didn't respond the short-sellers had the stage and and that basically is what destroyed the company but if the you know it's really kind of a remarkable thing so what do we miss we missed that someone with a superb track record of making acquisitions could do something you know I mean Mike Pearson went crazy in my opinion and part of that I think is he worked very closely with Howard Schiller his partner up until Howard effectively retired at the end of 2014 and Mike was always the incredibly aggressive guy and perhaps not having that balance of power he just pushed things too far you think anything criminal took place I don't know I don't know and did you take any cells throughout this that value act another big activist fund was involved in this I did we had an activist in the boardroom they owned a huge amount of stock you know you would assume they would act in their best interests you know I perhaps I should have took nope and they sold a billion dollars of stock over the summer you know that so it was unfortunate and you know I thought we always like when we invest in a company we want there to be a large shareholder in the boardroom and value acts had a good track record and they were on the board of this company for six or seven years they hired Pierson they design as an incentive compensation I think they're good people and that that was comforting to us so you know this will be one for the business school case studies but you know mistakes we made as we paid a full price for the existing assets and bet on management's track record to continue and we relied on others to be our eyes and ears in the boardroom and I think that was our mistake what about Chipotle so Chipotle we're back to corporate square kind of investments so instead of investing in Chipotle when they're doing extremely well in the stock seven-and-thirty we wait for an otherwise great company with a great brand to make a mistake and for people to lose confidence in the company and the management the board and that's when we can be most effective and we've been very effective in fast food you know first investments fast food was Wendy's doubled our money McDonald's similar kind of Burger King at one point Burger King we're still a major shareholders now called restaurant brands we made three and a half times our money with that company so it's a space we know well it's a simple predictable free cash flow generative business it's an unlevered company with a strong balance sheet they own all their stores which is very important because they can we have a problem it's easier to fix it if you control the store base and it's the first like on a regular basis at Chipotle ie on a less regular basis at the other fast-food companies we've invested in so I like the food I think it's healthy I think it's good for America I think they got a sustainable mode around their business and I think the food safety issues they've had I think they've addressed properly and it's a matter of time before the customer comes back ok let's talk about Herbalife because you said there was just one problem yeah you found a problem you don't consider life a problem it's been a media problem but I know I know the ultimate outcome right so I have enormous stomach for volatility this stock has had some volatility to say the least here are the facts as they stand now what you have is a company whose business is declining the deteriorating you know they were supposed to earn something like 8 bucks in 2017 if you look at the analyst models of just a couple years ago there now guidance is you know for 62 5 bucks and they're adding back a whole bunch of expenses that we think are not add VEX I think they're going to have regulatory and defending against the short seller expenses forever company is gone and the CEO just quit you know last week that's never a good sign the FTC found them to be a pyramid scheme except they didn't use the word pyramid scheme but if you look at the FTC complaint and the findings and compare them the complaint in findings and other companies are called pyramid schemes they're effectively identical the FTC the terms injunctive relief of the FD settlement take effect beginning in May so they've got a cliff coming and actually I would not underestimate mr. Oliver's 32-minute take down to the company which everyone has to watch everyone in the room you have to watch and then after you've watched the entire thing you have to send it to ten of your friends with the instructions to send it to ten of their friends with the instructions to send it to ten of their friends okay and a few more levels we've covered the globe but the point here is Herbalife loses two million distributors a year who quit because they lose money and they have to recruit two million to replace them how hard is that going to be when this you know this the John Oliver video has been watched five million times in English and they translated in Spanish and has been watched a couple million times in Spanish but it's you know that will make it that will destroy the confidence of the distributors and this is a con game and once the confidence gone is gone and yet your your other Trump supporter and Friends Carl Icahn keeps buying explain that one I love Carl – he's charming three is a smart investor but you know if I were his friend or whatever you want to call it a family member I would I would take him away from the trading desk on this one and do you wish though that you hadn't said some of the things early I mean if you could if you could go back and redo Herbalife given the amount of press attention that it got given the the view that you City was going to go to zero yes it's going to go to zero that's true would have you done anything differently yes I would have shorted the same amount of stock I would have put together a package I would have walked over to late-night TV I would have handed it to John Oliver and I would haven't make the presentation done seriously I mean that there is no upside to be a public at so-called active activist short seller because the the shareholders hate you the management hates you there's always the risk that Karl I step in and buy 20% of the company and every day say it's a great business you're just better off staying in the shadows and letting other people do the work I got to where I last I mean is bad for CNBC but it's my last public short-short when I do next time in all seriousness we find another short like this one and do the work we're in sit down with the sec we're going to let them just run it out it's just not worth the opprobrium that comes with going after company even if in this case as I believe this company's causing an enormous economic harm to very vulnerable populations and actually being a big consumer letting the world know about the business I thought we were doing good for society but unfortunately when there's a money element involved even no one will you know believe you I want to go to the audience but I have two questions one about Fannie and Freddie and the under other about Mondelez there has been speculation that 3G is putting together a fund and there's a lot of speculation that ultimately that fund 3G of course Heinz Kraft you know them well will ultimately try to buy Mondelez what do you think of that I think if I said anything 3G would get angry at me and I like them I want to I want to keep as many friends as I can should we take a wink in an AA but something is going on then no I don't know I don't know what whether there I don't know if they're raising fun what there what they plan to do with it and the last thing they would want to do is let other people know we would leave that there um Fannie and Freddie yes you have been talking about Fannie and Freddie for a very long time yes um and dare I say not getting a lot of traction on the issue with a new president in office yes what do you think is going to happen I think Fannie and Freddie are going to get resolved in the first 12 months of the this new administration and I'm looking forward to having my second meeting with Donald Trump and negotiating a deal and what is that deal I think the deal is that the government if you look at the the bailout of Fannie Freddie it looked like the bailout of all the other banks think Citigroup governing jacks preferred stock gets warrants helps build the capital of the enterprise tells Citigroup you know what we're going to require you to build your capital base to a certain level we're going to limit your activities to only the safest stuff and then we're going to once your capital base gets to a sufficient level you don't need us anymore we're going to either convert our preferred into common we're gonna sell our prefer the marketplace or allow you to refinance us that is the model that was used to bail at AIG and every other company in America except for one which is or SEP 4 2013 5 billion dollars of capital were injected into capitals injected into Fannie and Freddie Fannie Freddie gotten back the government's gotten back two hundred and sixty five or seventy billion dollars the under the original deal Fannie Freddie still owned still a little bit more because it was a 10 percent interest factor more than twice what they charged anyone else but fine we got to pay back the remaining interest it might be another twenty five billion dollars but what has to happen here is Fannie and Freddie should be limited to the core business they were set up to do which is to guarantee first mortgages on middle-class housing to creditworthy borrowers and that's a safe business it's the utility life business utility like business and if they're limited you know guardrails around the business and they have sufficient capital to withstand the great flood and what Jamie Dimon would call a fortress balance sheet and they're watched very very carefully you have businesses that will grow in value over a very long period of time the taxpayer owned seventy nine point nine percent of these two companies the taxpayer gets thirty five percent of the taxable income of the taxing power so eighty seven percent of this thing is owned by the taxpayer the taxpayer can't get that profit and the value of the equity without allowing the private or the public shareholders to get their share and so I think that's how it gets resolved there's all kinds of litigation going on litigations a bit of the stick and it is a threat to the government but the right answer here is a consensually negotiated deal where you have a commercial counterparties negotiate with the Obama administration put in place the so-called net worth sweep that has expropriated one hundred percent of profits these institutions forever that was an illegal act there's no way the Obama administration was going to reverse that and that's what we didn't even try I have not been lobbying the halls of DC to try that get that reversed my theory was whoever the next president was be able to sit down with someone and negotiate something sensible that's how I think this thing gets resolved and I couldn't imagine a better person negotiate with that someone who knows something about real estate let's go to the audience and get some microphones because I know there's a lot of people that have questions and then I have one final one you let's go right there hi public Stevenson New York Times November of the fraudulent press yes as much kinder words that mr. Trump has used for president Trump answers yes so it's been a difficult year and a bit for you last year you were down twenty percent so far this year you're down 20% you had an investor call today were you updated everybody you normally take calls you didn't take any questions from investors so what happened oh so we get the questions in advance and what we did is we tried to answer all the questions in the presentation we made and we're opposed we give normally a one-hour conference call at an hour of 15 in we ended the call but we any of our investors who have questions are free to call us at any time is there any particularly good question you didn't get a chance to answer not that I'm aware I liked good questions okay thank you um go quick we got a question there and then we'll go there my name is Adam on zero an MBA student at Fordham University I've heard you say before that when you started your MBA program you wanted to get into investing but there wasn't necessarily classes or a major for that and I'm wondering a two-part question first what did you do afterwards in order to you know what industry would give you the best skills to get into a position you're in now and in the second part of that is with the rise of quantitative hedge funds and where do you see you know good old fashioned financial statement analysis and reading thousands of pages of annual ports and 300 page slide powerpoints like you're so famous for and and really getting into it rather than its quantitative hedge funds thank you sure so I think the best thing investing business you can learn by reading you read everything Warren Buffett's ever written watch every YouTube video he's ever appeared in that's a great way to learn about investing but investing is more than just the way to really understand investing is to understand a business and one of the most important skills you need as an investor distict distinguishing between a great business a good business a fair business and a bad business and one way to get a sense of the quality of businesses go to work for one so the recommendation I give to people graduating from business schools these days is this is the greatest time in history to work for a start-up lots of incredibly interesting businesses being formed if you can be one of the early employees you're going to learn a lot about how our business works how to make payroll how to market your product how to design something and those skills I think are invaluable first of all you might even find it really interesting you might have joined the next Facebook so that's one thing even if the business fails you'll learn a ton from that I think that's the best experience you can get ultimately to be a good fundamental investor in terms of the future of fundamental investing I don't think everyone can be a passive investor I don't think everyone can be a quantitative trader and I think there will be always room for fundamental value investing because fundamentally stocks are driven and business value is driven by business fundamentals not supply and demand for securities in the short term not the weather on certain days and these various signals that are used by quantitative traders I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it but I don't think that even quantitative trading works unless there are a lot of people making fundamental investment decisions I think there was one more question right over here hi my name is Darren and I'm in Columbia University and we've been looking up at Chipotle for a while at school and I really had like a two-part question one is you know given the outbreak of the virus when you think cells will recover and you have a time line really like what quarter and next year or so and then my second question is as an activist investor unlike some of the previous beings looking like Pam Wendy's or Burger King salad a franchise model so I'm curious as to what you can do as an activist investor I noticed on a confidential agreement recently so doing that into regard just curious and finally if you're open to it what's your price target okay so I don't know precisely when sales recover but I would say they're already recovering so you can look at the pace of sales recovery and you can form your own view it typically takes there's a lot of history behind fast food and I mean pretty much every restaurant has had a food safety issue and the key for the restaurant industry if you get a lot of large number of stores is isolating the problem locking it down and then informing your consumers that you've identified the problem that's been fixed one of the problems with Chipotle is they did not have at the time the systems in place to track all of these fresh ingredients so they couldn't figure out where the problem came from and I think that was an issue but even the worst cases and you look at jack-in-the-box something approaching 800 people were got 660 got permanent organ damage and then you know four children died it was an incredible tragedy even that business two years later was the sales were back you know Chipotle I think is a pretty beloved brand I think they're doing a lot of the right things to recover and I you know I think that's not an unreasonable expectation for you know for what's your price cover eat I'm pregnant we don't have a target price but we do think that if you own the stock at today's price you'll make a very attractive return over time in terms of what they need to do I think they're already focusing on it obviously governance it's been it's been questioned by a lot of shareholders and I think the you know the company said publicly they're looking at kind of revamping the Board of Directors I think that will be a big positive a lot of very successful companies I mean look at the valiant example valiant was a credibly successful company stock was up 26 times or something under my Pearson's rule our management and then they got hit with a crisis they didn't know how to handle it and a lot of that relates to you know the board experience and people can be great at overseeing a business a terrible dealing with a crisis it's a critical skill for a management team and a board because some day one will happen but we got to go but I have one final question myself please which is if I was an investor in Bill Ackman playing for the long term but I'm an activist yes how much time should I give you and how should I measure your performance over the next couple of years sure I think your way to look at us is the question is is valiant and anomaly or there's something structurally wrong with version Square and I think if you look at the facts the vast majority of our investments including the ones we hold today have been successful our batting average has been remarkably high over a very very long period of time we went what I would say use a football analogy football European football knowledge we went off piste we did something a little bit different made a passive investment we paid a full price we suffer the consequence so I think if you feel comfortable that that's a one-off you know that we've already we've already suffered pretty much all of the loss we can suffer with respect to valiant and you know at this prize we think it's cheap you know people Alex talked about two years two difficult years I mean the answer is it has been difficult from August to March and we've been making progress we still got a ways to go but you know this was a extraordinary experience and in my experience as an investor my favorite CEO is the CEO that had a great record made one really bad acquisition or one really bad decision you know new coke or they bought something they pay the wrong price and then they've learned from it and then you can you know you get the benefit of a good entry price you can buy Pershing Square today and we're really cheap and then you get the benefit of a you know that the same management team with that much more humility that much more insight and experience and I think that's a you know I think investors have learned that story over time the humble Bill Ackman everybody thank you very very much thank you